Curse

Sekkendou · May 30, 2005, 04:49 PM // 16:49

To the guy that said rangers can't solo... I did every single quest with just henches. I beat the final mission with just henches. I solo, without henches in Perdition Rock for farming items.

Rey Lentless · May 30, 2005, 05:24 PM // 17:24

I can see where this would be the impression. I think it's the class that just attracts a lot of people who aren't going to do very well in pvp, or at least just aren't yet. I don't think it's a 'noob' class, but a lot of role players and new people are drawn to the ranger I think.

I personally have had a lot more success in PVE with my ranger so far than I had with my warrior.

I've seen some good rangers in pvp, but there are fewer of them than the other classes. Coodination with traps, and protecting monks, as well as some very good counter abilities on offense. I can usually counter what a monk's doing in pvp, but if he has a good ranger keeping an eye on me and him at the same time.. it can be real rough. Part of that is my build, but a good ranger is one of the last things I want to see on the other team.

Xellos · May 30, 2005, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flatliner

Its because most Rangers don't play the role they are best at. Rangers are best as a Caster-Interuptor. A lot of the rangers I see seem to think they are pure damage dealers and are 1/2 as effective as they should be because of their skills, regarless of if they are good or not.

Too bad their a joke compared to mesmers. Concussion shot? Please. Requires tigers fury to make it good, and forces you to target that person the whole time. Distracting Shot is decent, but power block owns it. Debilitating shot is the ONLY reason to get ranger for "anti-caster". Mesmer > Ranger in sheer lockdown.

Tombs flavour of the month doesn't allow much creativity for now, but hey, it'll change in a bit.

Ranger is just plain weird. They can do a little bit of everything, but their not super good at anything. The upside though, is that their somewhat harder to shut down.

Quote:

Run and shoot, run and shoot, run again and shoot. Never get hit...

Too bad GvG and Tombs doesn't allow that to be successful. This isn't counterstrike. Dinky arrows that go "pink" aren't going to make a difference if you can't take the altar or kill the guild lord.

I've made a ranger build that's done over 120 damage in 1 shot, but since it's not zealous, I'm not really sure if it's sustainable. I guess I'm too use to the current playstyle to resort back to chipping away health.

Neo-LD · May 30, 2005, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Most people have very few original ideas on how to play ranger besides the standard damage sniper. Ironically, that build is the one that makes rangers so shunned. Anyways, since there is no concensus on how to play rangers, I assume no one will mind a couple of exotic rangers i thought up/played around with:

Try using echo to make dibilitating shot almost 100% spammable. With high expertise and other skills like power drain, ether lord, and Inspired H/E, you can keep going almost indefinatley. Add distract shot and savage shot... and you have a really annoying shutdown ranger. As/more effective than quite a few mesmer builds, too.

Use Quickening Zephyr to Make Quick Shot 100% spammable. With 16 expertise it costs 2 per shot(even with zephyr), add a zealous string and its 1 per shot. Add choking gas or kindle arrows, with barbs/mark of pain/weaken armor on your target, and wallah! A deadly machine gunner.

Rajamic · May 30, 2005, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Rather than calling them a support class, I call them the creative class. All the options they have (particularly in Wilderness Survival) let you do some very interesting things.

I think a lot of people still make the mistake that all that matters is how much damage or how much healing a character can do. Admittedly, the Ranger isn't ideal for either. But a trapper Ranger can make someone blind and on fire without even touching them. An interruptor Ranger can really cripple another team.

How many interrupts are as fast as distracting shot and disable the skill for a long time? How many options are as good as Concussion shot for shutting down an enemy? Are you guys forgetting Pin Down? Now with these three attacks, how important is it to be doing big damage? It's not. If you can hit these, you can slow down your enemies damage abilities (pin down the warrior), make one monk under fire from a warrior damn near useless (daze from concussion shot), and make a third character lose one ability for a long time (distracting shot).

Now, two of those 3 skills are under Marksmanship, but do you really need it at 12+ for them to be effective? IMO, no. And you'll have disabled 2 character + one skill on a third, and still haven't dipped into you secondary class. And if you have a high expertise, you'll not have dipped too deep into your mana either.

Epinephrine · May 30, 2005, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

Use Quickening Zephyr to Make Quick Shot 100% spammable. With 16 expertise it costs 2 per shot(even with zephyr), add a zealous string and its 1 per shot. Add choking gas or kindle arrows, with barbs/mark of pain/weaken armor on your target, and wallah! A deadly machine gunner.

Umm, Are you certain of this fact? I've done some testing, albeit not up to 16 expertise, using QZ with abilities and it seemed to me that the QZ cost was calculated based on the BASE value of the attribute, not on the adjusted. I tested using 10 cost skills, and an expertise of 8 IIRC, which would grant me a 32% drop in costs, resulting in a cost of 6.8 per spell, rounded gives a 7. I ran QZ and was paying 10 per casting, which would imply that the 30% increased cost is an increase on the base cost, as 30% of 7 would be 2.1, which would result in a 9 cost instead of a 10. Granted, the difference is only 1 energy point, and I might have miscounted or something, but I had the distinct impression that I was using a full 10 energy per skill.

Neo-LD · May 30, 2005, 06:47 PM // 18:47

quick shot costs 5.

13+ expertise makes 5 mana stuff cost 2. 30% of 5 is a little more than 1. so... hmm Im not totally sure, but I think that makes it 1 per shot, if not than 2 per shot, which is still good.

Epinephrine · May 30, 2005, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

quick shot costs 5.

13+ expertise makes 5 mana stuff cost 2. 30% of 5 is a little more than 1. so... hmm Im not totally sure, but I think that makes it 1 per shot, if not than 2 per shot, which is still good.

30% of 5 is 1.5, which rounds to 2. Several improtant things need to be addressed to figure this out, so if nobody tests before I get a chance tonight I'll have a look at it. I know that the game rounds costs; the questions are:

Is the QZ cost increase of 30% applied to the base cost or to the adjusted cost?

Is the rounding done on each component of cost before summing or is it applied to the final cost? (e.g., a 5 cost skill at 8 expertise is reduced by 32% to 3.4. The extra cost of QZ, if it is is calculated on the base of 5 energy is 1.5, which could then either be added first, bringing the total to (3.4+1.5)=3.9, which is then rounded to 4, or each cost could be rounded separately, becoming 3+2=5. To distinguish this from other possibillities would require testing at a few expertise levels and skill costs.)

WiseElben · May 30, 2005, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xphile

Rangers can be very very good depending on what you are trying to do.

If your standing toe to toe and trying to duke it out, your right most likely you'll get owned.

A ranger / mez is extremely good against spell casters though. Usually when I go into PvP I'll either find a spell caster that wandered too far away from a monk, or I'll concentrate on the monk. They really hate backfire and distracting shot.

In PvE I'm 90% of the time the last guy alive on the team, even when I'm tanking. It all depends on how you play the game. Get somewhere up high so you can do more damage per shot, you have longer range so you should be able to hit their spell casters / healers that are behind the rushing warriors.

I especially love any area with undead, as the monk I always party with (he is the XO of my guild) gives me holy damage so I'm doing 140+ dmg per shot.

Very true. I found myself using my Rez Signet every mission because I was the last one alive. Why? Well, because when I notice that the battle is not going our way, I would slow down the enemy, get on top of a hill, reanalize the situation, and then decide what to do. The warriors would get stuck or something in the mob and die, the monks can't keep up with the healing, and the elems die while casting spells. Heh, I guess that doesn't have anything to do with the professions themselves, but how I play my ranger. =)

WiseElben · May 30, 2005, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Defafnyr

I see no proof of that. I put expertise at 12 and every skill, every one of them displayed NO change in energy cost. None, nada, zip. With 0 in expertise they display the SAME energy cost as putting 12 points into expertise.

Go into the pvp creator and see for yourself. Roll a ranger. Check out the skill costs with 0 expertise. Then load up the max points you can put into expertise. The energy cost of each and every skill remains the same.

I need proof.

Er... even ArenaNET themselves SAID that Expertise would lower energy cost. Perhaps the Energy cost doesn't change in the skill description, but it does work. Why are you so stubborn?

Red Locust · May 30, 2005, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Expertise does make skills cost less, but it doesn't show this on your skill description. Try to cast a skill and see how much energy ACTUALLY gets deducted from your total. I'll tell you right now that it is less than the listed energy cost. From what I remember from playing my ranger, an expertise of around 12 brings energy costs down to about half.

Nessaja · May 30, 2005, 08:34 PM // 20:34

he already knows it now, no need to go on and on about it.

I personally love my R/W melee ranger. It's an excellent mage killer and a good tank.

R/N and R/Me are typically annoyers which make life hard for monks, with some traps you can avoid being killed aswell.

Weezer_Blue · May 31, 2005, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Rangers aren't bad at all. If a ranger couldn't kill you as a monk ele, there's something wrong with them, not the class. As if Warriors weren't easy enough to kill, any caster class should be a simple pluck of a string for a ranger worth his salt. The reasons rangers suck, is cause a lot of the people who play them suck.

Shrapnel_Magnet · May 31, 2005, 06:56 AM // 06:56

First and foremost, I suggest you all to refer to this chart for Expertise related questions, if you haven't done so already.

Also, a Ranger using Quickening Zephyr doing one of two things... being very Selfish or complying to a team build. Quickening Zephy may be a blessing to Rangers but I'm not sure if our friends the Monks are going to be overly excited.

Expertise is often considered *BEST* at 14. It's practically a Minimum to run 11 Expertise + 3 from a Sup Rune or a +1 Hat and a Major Rune.

Concussion Shot has it's uses and if you can hit with it, you're going to be causing problems. In reality though, if you're running Concussion Shot, you're looking for 2-5 spells to hit with it, and that's about it. At 14 expertise, Conc Shot is costing you 11 Energy... mighty costly for a "chance" skill.

Distracting Shot has to be the best Ranger Interrupt available. If you look, it has a 3/4 casting time to use it... BUT that just means that you don't have to use your full attack animation. Distracting Shot can fire almost instantly right behind any one of your attacks. Savage Shot and Concussion Shot, however, do not work like this. They must be fired just as any of your other bow attacks.

Speaking of Bows... a lot of rangers are running around with Longbows and other such things... this is hurting their DPS greatly. I was never a big advocate of the Half Moon or Shortbow but I stand by them and find it hard to use anything else. The shortened range is a non-issue in PvP and you can easily switch to a longer range bow if you find yourself too far from the target. In adition to this, as a Ranger myself, I often take the time to view other Ranger's skills in PuG's that I come across. I click on their name and watch what skills they use for a bit and I've noticed that almost no one runs Tiger's Fury. If you want to be doing Damage as a Ranger, you NEED this skill. Either that or Frenzy if you're a R/W.

Dunno if I have much else to say right now... other than a plea to the community to PLEASE stop running W/R in PvP... please.

Canook · May 31, 2005, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Defafnyr

I see no proof of that. I put expertise at 12 and every skill, every one of them displayed NO change in energy cost. None, nada, zip. With 0 in expertise they display the SAME energy cost as putting 12 points into expertise.

Go into the pvp creator and see for yourself. Roll a ranger. Check out the skill costs with 0 expertise. Then load up the max points you can put into expertise. The energy cost of each and every skill remains the same.

I need proof.

uhm....try looking at ur energy, for power shot for example. i have 12 expertise, and when i select power shot, only 5 or 6 energy gets eaten up. even though it may not say it on the skills itself...it happens.

Hell Marauder · May 31, 2005, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Defafnyr

I will take your word for it then.

The skill description does NOT change, but if enough of you say that in REALITY it does change in-game during use, that the energy bar uses less, then that's proof enough. But you have to understand, I had to have people who have actually TESTED this post their results.

.

The skill description doesn't change, but the actual cost of attack skill does. Try it out in the arena and check your energy. A skill (like Hunter shot) that costs 5 now costs only 3 energy or less. Trust me, expertise DOES reduces energy cost.

Epinephrine · May 31, 2005, 04:24 PM // 16:24

PLEASE read the posts. The issue was settled weeks ago. He says he believes it back on the 5th page, on the 18th of May.

Striker Shardale · May 31, 2005, 11:32 PM // 23:32

I am just glad I have my +1 hat and +1 shirt to add to my +1 pants so that my nakedness modifier is -3.

Mercury Rivenswift · Jun 01, 2005, 12:37 PM // 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

Rangers aren't bad at all. If a ranger couldn't kill you as a monk ele, there's something wrong with them, not the class. As if Warriors weren't easy enough to kill, any caster class should be a simple pluck of a string for a ranger worth his salt. The reasons rangers suck, is cause a lot of the people who play them suck.

Just face it. Rangers blow in pvp. The only reason most people play them now (including me) is for aesthetic reasons. I've never liked playing warriors or spellcasters. I've always gone towards the "rogue" type character. Don't tell me that you are easily killing warriors and monks. Are you doing this in HOH??? I don't think so since no one will take a ranger in their group. This class sucks and must either be buffed or monks and warriors nerfed.

My buff suggestion: Make expertise also add damage to bow attacks.

rii · Jun 01, 2005, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Rangers cant be buffed easily. They dont specialise, and so by buffing them they get to do everything well, as opposed to know, when they can do everything below par. Take healing.... at current healing spring allows a ranger to aoe heal for 50 health every two seconds for 10 seconds.. 500 health. Not bad. What if it was buffed to 100 health every 2 seconds.... Noone would need a monk, a couple of guys with healing spring and your in the money.
Consider damage. Say they made it so that expertise raised damage.. at current you can do about 70 damage a hit. Then, it would be doing about 110! Screw that, 4 hits and your dead..... tigers fury for faster.
Finally, consider interrupts. At the moment, the air time makes it tricky, but say there interrupts were half the casting time. Notice the ongoing trend here? Rangers can do everything, just not that well. Buff them so they can do everything well and they suddenly become the only class worth playing....